Phil Ivey - en hustler?

Troede den gut havde stil...

www.thehendonmob.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14023

Tjek op på 2+2.

Golf gambling der er alt til negotiation inden man spiller og der blir genforhandlet undervejs. (aldrig oplevet en giver sin true handicap)

Manden blev ved med at raise stakes op købe hans vens bets og da tabet blev for stort lavede han verdens ældeste hustle.

Win = get $$$$$
Loose: dont pay.

Det er min mening.

tror Shaniac er meget spot on med denne:

That's cuz Ram himself probably caught up in the appeal of being "friends" with Phil Ivey, when it seems Phil is the type of guy who values casual friendships far less than the ability to maximize a huge edge. That is definitely my impression of Phil--a total lone gun, in it for "delf," and I can assure you he considers the homies who have been with him since day one to be much closer, truer friends than the gambling buddies he's acquired since becoming The Best Poker Player Ever.

I'm acquainted with Ram and not at all with Phil, and I like Ram a lot as a person, but I'm inclined to think he made a big mistake and didn't properly conceive of a way to resolve the situation.

I was in a golf gambling situation once with friends, where I knew I was taking the worst of it against one in particular, halfway getting hustled even, but I participated in the gambling part anyway because it would have been lame and not fun for me to abstain. Peer pressure, the lust for action, and going with the flow all play a part of it.

I don't think Ram is trying to "re-scam" Phil or whatever people are saying, but it seems clear to me that he did get carried away in the action of the moment, feels like he was hustled, and is trying to "welsh." If I were the arbitrator, I would have Ram and Phil settle for an amount somewhere in the middle and let Ram work out a payment plan.

haha payment plan hvad tror han det er, du skal da lade være med at deltage i væddemål du ikke kan tabe uanset hvad du tror på når du laver det.

Seat 1: Ram Asswhiney ($2,000,000)
Seat 2: Phil Ivey ($50,000,000)
Ram Asswhiney posts the small blind of $5,000
Phil Ivey posts the big blind of $10,000
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Ram Asswhiney calls $5,000
Phil Ivey raises $20,000 to $30,000
Ram Asswhiney calls $20,000
*** FLOP *** [A♠ A♦ J♥]
Phil Ivey bets $60,000
Ram Asswhiney calls $60,000
*** TURN *** [A♠ A♦ J♥] [K♠]
Phil Ivey bets $200,000
Ram Asswhiney calls $200,000
*** RIVER *** [A♠ A♦ J♥ K♠] [Q♥]
Phil Ivey bets $49,710,000, and is all in
Ram Asswhiney calls $1,710,000, and is all in
Uncalled bet of $48,000,000 returned to Phil Ivey
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Phil Ivey shows [A♥ A♣] (Four of a kind, aces)
Ram Asswhiney shows [2♣ 2♥] [Two pair, aces and deuces baby)
Ram Asswhiney sits out and begins bitching and moaning that Phil had an unfair edge in this hand and refuses to pay up because he was obviously drawing dead halfway through but doesn't have the sense to fold and cut his losses.
*** SUMMARY ***
Phil > Ram

HUSTLER

Det er så dårlig stil...

At direkte lyve om sit handikap på golfbanen er ikke en skid anderledes end at spille med mærkede kort.

Men det syntes folk måske også er OK?

/Mikale

Man kan kun sige at passer det at han har løjet om sit handicap og dermed prøvet at vinde pernge på uærlig vis, er det vel ikke meget bedre end at stjæle....

Han er en skide bums hvis det passer:)

ens score ændrer sig ikke fordi man får træner på. Så selv om han måske er en 10'er så kan han altså godt officelt stadig være en 20'er DTM.

Golf gambling er meget anderledes end poker. Det er normalt at man forhandler etc undervejs og det er da klart ud fra rams egen mund at han har dummet sig.

Man aftaler nogle terms - undervejs kan de ændres hvis en spiller føler sig snydt. Over 2 dage raisede han selv stakes og købte den andens spillers slag.

kan ikke se at ivey er en dum hustler, mere ram der har spillet over limit og tiltet på golfbanen :-)

Golf er hasard : O )

han vælger at fortsætte med at spille selv efter de første 18 huller, udover det vælger han at tage en tredjemands bets..

for mig ligner det sku os freerolling fra rams side.

Der er ingen tvivl om, at Ram har været en muppet i den her sag, men det ændrer ikke ved, at hvis det er korrekt at Ivey direkte har løjet om flere ting, så er det low life.

Hvis alle andre render rundt og ved, at Ivey er blevet ca. dobbelt så god som han har været, mens Ivey påstår at han dårligt har spillet, så lyver han. Om det er et officielt handikap de spiller efter eller de aftaler et ved at stå og sludre om meritterne på golfbanen er i min verden ligegyldigt.

Man kan snyde folk så meget man vil på ord-spil og regelbøjninger, som de gjorde i stor stil i gamle dage (Slim var vel nok den bedste og mest kendte i relation til dette), men at flat out lyve er classless og ikke anderledes end at deale en seccond.

/Mikael

Helt enig DTM.

Jeg mener bare at hvis du læser rams statement så går alarmklokkerne flere gange.

Tror helt ærligt han er blevet forskrækket over hvor meget af hans rulle der var væk. Prøv at gennemlæse hans post igen, DTM.

Derudover så er golf gambling altså IKKE en gentleman forretning og hvad man kan udelade af hvad de begge har skrevet så har han heller ikke selv været alt for ærlig de første gange de spillede - derfor kan man også altid genforhandle undervejs.

Det er lidt ligesom han troede det var stor payday - Han tager selv hans vens slag/bet efter at være blevet tævet på dag 1.

På intet tidspunkt vælger han at genforhandle hvilket en hver anden der har golfbettet før ville gøre efter min mening.

Nu ved vi jo ikke alt hvad der er foregået, jeg siger bare hans statement fleresteder fortæller en anden 'historie' end den han gerne vil have frem.

Tid til lidt poker :)

"lidt" om golf gambling og hvordan DEN verden fungerer (interessant læsning der i hvert fald overbeviste mig om at det var Ivey der havde "retten" på sin side her.):

Blair Rodman:



I’ve been golf gambling for over 20 years. In fact, it’s my favorite form of gambling. I learned early on that there’s a big difference between golfing gamblers and regular golfers.
Golf as played by normal people is a genteel sport set apart from most by its’ traditions of honesty and good sportsmanship. Golf to gamblers is simply another medium in which to try to get an advantage over your opponents. Standard protocols of normal golf have nothing to do with golf gambling. However, there are some protocols that apply to golf gambling.
The first thing I learned about golf gambling is that every experienced golf gambler lies about his abilities. This is part of the game! If you ask a group of golf gamblers how they are playing, virtually every one is going to say he hasn’t been playing, various body parts hurt, his game is off, etc. This is SOP! If you don’t understand this, or refuse to play that game, you are setting yourself up for a big fall. It’s not lying in this context, just as bluffing in poker isn’t lying in the traditional sense. It is within the context of the game. Once all the [censored]is out of the way, you can get down to real negotiations. Often in big money matches the negotiations fall flat and there’s no game. No big deal. I’ve been on the first tee many times when the game falls apart.
If this story is true, Phil simply used an age-old tactic in golf gambling. If you’re playing better than anyone expects and are going to play for serious money, are you going to tell your opponents the truth? Not if you want to survive in the golf-gambling world. How did Phil know his opponents weren’t trying to do the same to him, not that it matters for the scope of this discussion.
The bottom line is that Phil’s opponents are professional gamblers who got involved in a gambling game they seem to know little about. To get involved with someone in a golf match for serious money just on the basis of his word is dumb, and dumb people don’t survive in this milieu.

To quote Marc Goodwin, assuming that post was really from him:

“At the start of the game we said to Phil that as we haven't played for 3 months and he must have improved we need to adjust the handicaps. We could not agree and we were doomed to no game until Ram said "does Eric Lingdren still give you 10 shots" to which Phil replied yes!!On that piece of information we had a game. As we always ***** about handicaps throughout the match Phil suggested that we agree to play 18 holes with no adjustment and then adjust for the next series of games. We agreed

Think about it. They knew Phil was improving rapidly. They were on the verge of not having a match because Phil wouldn’t agree to an adjustment. But, instead of walking away they wanted to play so badly that they believed Phil when he said EDog still gives him shots. Perhaps this is because, as Marc states, they had been getting the best of him in the past and wanted more. Then they agreed to a match for very big money and, to make it worse, agreed to Phil’s stipulation that there’d be no mid-round adjustment. Sorry guys, you lost the negotiation game, which is every bit as important in golf gambling as the playing of the game itself. Pay up, lesson learned.

and

Some more thoughts on golf gambling:

It seems to me that many posters in this thread are confusing golf with golf gambling. I love golf and would play without gambling—if no one would bet with me. However, not many gamblers feel that way. (Russ Hamilton, one of the best golf gamblers ever, told me a few years ago that a guy invited him to Augusta. Most golfers would kill for the chance. I